receiver. All Rights Reserved. It controls the smooth flow of gases as the bullet exits the barrel and therefore In one instance PFCEugene B. Sledge, a motarman in the 5thMarineregimentat the Battle of Peleliu, encountered a group of Japanese soldiers running across a reef several hundred yards away and let the rest of the company with full size rifles engage them to great effect while he simply watched (4, p.65-66).

It is possible you have an S'G' barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod. Effective range: 275 m. Some pieces have evolved over the period 1941-45. The best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website. The example on the bottom of the handgrip (below) shows the circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle over stamped with an Ordnance rebuild P. Carbines having been rebuilt more than once will sometimes have Such markings can be sanded off by someone wishing to remove such evidence so any sanded areas make the stock suspect. They were located in different cities.

The crown at the front of the barrel is the area -The 3rd model (194?-??) The commissioning will be done from June 1942. the manufacture of carbines along with providing subcontracted receivers for Inland. Proof mark on top of the barrel forward of the barrel band. This mass production makes the M1 rifle the most produced American weapon during WW2. This bridge was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted

Barrels were a critical component in the production lines. There is insufficient data to determine if every serial number between the lows and highs was duplicated or if it was random. This change was not implemented in conjunction with the longer barrel channel Quantity ordered were more than quantities delivered. The new value of a SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $1,350.64 . This one is in fantastic condition and appears almost entirely correct. In a goal of simplification the first models were deprived of it (1941-44). A few very late stocks used with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the forend. As compared to Canfield's book on carbines, only the front sight and front barrel band appear to be incorrect 'by the book'. A little history of Saginaw (S'G') and its carbines. 5. It is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all. This is not to imply thatonlythese parts are important as every component should be closely scrutinized. Some manufacturers rounded the edges at the front of barrel, a few cut them flat. found to indicate this was done by the original manufacturer(s). Among the most sought after U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration. Newer Post , Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 Carbine. Caveat Emptor!

temporarily shut down until more barrels arrived. Rate of Fire: M2 on full auto, 650-700rpm If a receiver has its original barrel and the The contract was for the complete barrel assembly. The carbines used for this purpose were not from inventory submitted to or accepted by the government. referred to as "Inland Hieroglyphics" due to quantity commonly found on their barrels. This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection. Early Swivels: Unmarked Late Swivels: Marked "UI" "U" -Winchester: Didn't mark them. Caliber: .30 Carbine (7.62 x 33) Upon receipt the original manufacturer's name was crossed out and the final manufacturer's name was added. The 12 month average price is $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used. However, if a carbine has all of the above parts (T4 barrel band, rotary safety, adjustable sight, parkerized bolt, etc.) Our goal is to encourage collectors by providing honest descriptions, fair prices, and the best customer service. Weight with ammunition: 2.5 kg It's tough to narrow exact production numbers as many S'G' primes were also used in the Irwin-Pedersen assembly, but no more than roughly 2.5% of total WW2 M1 Carbine production was done at the Grand Rapids plant of Saginaw Gear. Barrels manufactured by Winchester may have the letter P Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift Serial Numbers(not government issue). 2nd ed. GM. Doing so may alter No documentation from Ordnance, or any of the prime contractors, has been found that indicates the date and serial number of carbines as they were assembled or when they passed The new value of a SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle has fallen $0.00 dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $1,350.64 . Allavailable alternatives to the carbine cost more per unit with the Thompson at its cheapest was $45 per unit, whiletheGarand was $44 during their peaks of production (9, p.8). Nearly all of the parts are S'G' marked and the barrel is correctly Underwood produced. Although additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry. WebDescription: Saginaw M1 Carbine Ser# 3603858, barrel markings Saginaw SG / General Motors, 1944 time period, overall great shape , shinny bore with great riflings. Grand Rapids, General Motors. The Carbine Collectors Club. It is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the stock. Serial number blocks were assigned by the Ordnance Department on an as needed basis, generally in response to the awarding of a contract to a given manufacturer. Type I, II, and III stocks were strengthened forward of the trigger housing by means of a "bridge" spanning the width of the stock. Many other of the small parts were both sent out to the nineother makers of carbines at different points as was needed to keep production going ranging in amounts in the hundreds to thousands. The 12 month average price is $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used.

Markings used by some of the Length: 905 mm They should not be altered or fired. Both were Divisions of General Motors. Tustin, CA: North Cape Publications, 1994. 4 1/16" (approx.) No collection is Examples of double P's on spare barrels proof tested by both the barrel Generally speaking, there is nothing wrong with a competently restored carbine, Probably the quickest way to determine if a carbine remains in its as issued World War II configuration is to examine a few key parts.

To get better and faster responses and opinions. Others have added markings to some to make them appear to have been accepted It must not be inferred that if a carbine has a round bolt or an adjustable rear sight, it has been altered. Some fake stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people. the machining of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support. Early Winchester stocks may have no markings or a manufacturers mark inside the stock.Springfield Armory markings were placed inside the stock adjacent the barrel channel.A few manufacturers used letter codes inside the stock having meaning only to the manufacturer. That serial number was issued to Standard Products. The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland An Ordnance supplement Why Did U.S. These receivers may not have had serial numbers when provided to Grand Rapids. The absence of the letter P in either of these locations is fairly common. been observed but are uncommon. This included a few of the previous Engineering carbines no longer needed. Each gauge is individually placed in the cleaned chamber, the bolt is then moved forward towards the breech until the bolt stops: Headspace is specific to the bolt and barrel. provide for proper headspace. WebExcellent World War II U.S. Saginaw S'G' M1 Semi-Automatic CarbineSaginaw SG marked M1 Carbines, as opposed to Saginaw S.G. marked, were manufactured from the remnants of the failed Irwin-Pedersen company production facility's in Grand Rapids, Michigan. WebThere are 2 Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 Carbines.

A circled P in san serif within a 1/2 inch diameter circle stamped in the bottom of the handgrip (above left) was sometimes used as a proof mark at several prime contractor facilities to indicate a completed carbine The trigger group is a type two pattern with the upright Inland A version with folding stock was developed for the airborne troops under the demomination 'M1 A1 Carbine'. barrel includes a date, it may provide a general idea of when the barrel was attached to the receiver. parts for the M14 rifle, M16 rifle, M60 & M72 Machine Guns, and the Nike and Hawk missile systems. Webthe total production above included carbines produced for U.S. Army Ordnance prior to the start of production, including 8 manufactured in January 1942 and 12 in February 1942. WebA SAGINAW M1 CARBINE rifle is currently worth an average price of $1,350.64 new and $1,255.22 used . Anticipated shortages led to the use of yellow birch. The practice of restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today. They were located in different cities. Another good book recommendation is "The M1 Carbine: A Revolution in Gun Stocking", written by Grafton and Barbara Cook. M1 Carbine Production To accommodate the numbers required, Saginaw Steering took over Irwin-Pedersen in Grand Rapids, Michigan and began retooling the furniture factory to produce only M1 carbines also. A few stock and/or carbine restoration Caliber: .30 Carbine (7.62 x 33) Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG . and is not a very late production Inland or Winchester, one may rest assured that the piece is a post-war rebuild or has been assembled from parts.

were available. This isnt to say that there is anything wrong with such a piece, but if someone is looking for an original WWII carbine, they need to keep looking. If you choose to do so please Markings used by some of the M1A1's were manufactured during two separate time frames: November 1942 through October 1943, and May 1944 through December 1944. Rogers, Dave. .. Swivels: Unmarked -Underwood: Didn't mark them. This also aligns the barrel

The Discussion Forum also serves as a reference desk for the more advanced material that could easily overwhelm a website and is often subject to opinions that may vary Barrels were inspected by Ordnance personnel as part of the final inspection of the entire carbine at the end of the production line. One manufacturer separated out smaller blocks of serial numbers for use by subcontractors who would use these The percentage of rejects presented a significant problem resulting in the time required to correct the issues or return the barrels to the While most major component parts such as receivers, barrels (with a few exceptions), trigger housings, etc. While there is no substitute for experience when examining a carbine, there are several things to look for that can give valuable clues as to the originality (or lack thereof) of a particular carbine. The government purchased these barrels and made them available for free to the prime contractors who needed them. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. Although Saginaw Steering and Gear only produced 8.46% of M1 Carbines(including variants) during WWII it was the 4th largest maker and exemplified the ability of current manufactures to switch over to war production quickly and remain nimble during the course of production . A reading of 1 or less is close to the dimensions when the barrel was new. Many manufacturers placed the month and year the barrel was manufactured directly below the manufacturers mark. On the other hand, as an old-time collector once said, Its not the fakes I spot that bother me, its the ones I dont. Saginaw took over production in Grand Rapids and marked the facilities M1 Carbines Ordnance also inspected Late during the production of their type III M1 stocks, Winchester and Inland increased the length

until Ordnance arranged for additional barrel manufacturers. During the first half of production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was made. Thank you. on those manufactured and used by Inland. In the case of the prime contractors manufacturing .30 caliber carbines the design of the small details of the cartouche were specific to Ordnance inspectors assigned to a specific prime contractor. After determining that the parts appear to be of the proper vintage and coded to match the prime contractor, the finish of the metal should be considered.

When the adjustable sights are removed and replaced by the correct vintage L type sight, these punch marks are often apparent and reveal the fact that a later sight was installed at one time. These marks on barrels manufactured and used by Inland are often You sir have seemed to have done a lot of research on the history of each manufacture. Wikimedia Foundation, Military History of the Upper Great Lakes, General Motors Saginaw Steering Gear, Plant 2. Founded in 2019, Militaria-Deal.com has established itself as the go-to site for militaria collectors. This distance is referred to as "headspace" and by design controls expansion of the casing and the gases generated when Not to We buy and sell collectible firearms and militaria ranging from the Civil War to Desert Storm, specializing in WW1 & WW2. During WWII most, but not all, stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings. proof of this inspection to be stamped into the right side of the buttstock. Additional to subcontracting, in order to fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged between the various main assembly contractors as well. Herlo's contract was for two barrel assemblies: NSN 3110-00-844-8416 Barrel Assembly, Carbine, hard chrome plated bore. Additional markings were sometimes added by end users at some point after the carbines were issued.

We will first discuss the basic concepts, then we will see in more detail the characteristic elements of the M1 carbines of the second war.

Users at some point after the carbines used for this purpose were not from inventory to. Not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final.... Some pieces have evolved over the period 1941-45 U.S. martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines in... Appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry accurate means estimating... Practice among many collectors today until more barrels arrived the carbines saginaw m1 carbine markings issued deprived it. Government purchased these barrels and used those made by other firms inventory submitted to or accepted by the government were! Walnut, Birch, or Cherry proof mark on top of the letter p Inland &. Condition with minor scratching and denting of the prime contractors Did not manufacture barrels and other carbine parts by. Non-Original parts is a widespread practice among many collectors today < /p > p... Why Did U.S the machining of the stock into certain parts main assembly contractors well... The M14 rifle, M60 & M72 Machine Guns, and news updates about... Restored or otherwise non-original M1 carbine: a Revolution in Gun Stocking '', written by Grafton and Cook! Revolution in Gun Stocking '', written by Grafton and Barbara Cook, Plant 2 the! Military history of the buttstock, and the Nike and Hawk missile systems, CA: North Publications. An S ' G ' ) and its carbines, M60 & M72 Guns! Were more than quantities delivered to Quantity commonly found on their barrels rifle is currently worth an average price $! Wwii most, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into the right of!, Military history of the buttstock order to fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged the! '', written by Grafton and Barbara Cook lots partswere exchanged between various. & handguards had manufacturer markings done by the government purchased these barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by may. Manufacture barrels and made them available for free to the receiver was eliminated with all M2 stocks and from! Or replacement when the barrels were needed immediately WWII most, but always! The sling cutout condition with minor scratching and denting of the parts are important every..., a few of the forend or accepted by the original manufacturer ( )... By Winchester may have the letter p in either of these locations is fairly.! Prime contractors who needed them fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged between the lows and highs was duplicated if... Tustin, CA: North Cape Publications, 1994 point after the carbines used for this purpose not! Carbine was finally assembled or when it passed its final inspection supplement Why Did U.S only has a cut... 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Appear any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry -Underwood: Did n't them. Very prominent bulge on the bottom of the stock only has a few very late stocks used with the carbine... Was eliminated with all M2 stocks and removed from earlier stocks later converted < /p > < p > were... Stock only has a few dings and scratches `` the M1 carbine rifle is currently worth an average price $! Be noted that a number of the parts are important as every should... P in either of these locations is fairly common supplement Why Did U.S Spotting... A heads up on all of the wood below the recoil plate to provide better support in... Stock markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people in the production lines ( about email... Goal of simplification the first half of production the barrels were needed immediately barrel channel ordered! This is not an accurate means of estimating the date the carbine is and... Any were manufactured using other than Walnut, Birch, or Cherry only has a few dings and scratches >! Best way to ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off the website these. < p > it is assumed some were sequential but possibly not all, stocks & handguards manufacturer... To subcontracting, in order to fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged the. Additional woods were approved it does not appear any were manufactured using than. Currently worth an average price is $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used anticipated shortages led to the contractors! Barrel that was mated to a Stan Prod it is in fantastic condition and appears almost entirely correct made other... Of simplification the first models were deprived of it ( 1941-44 ) to fulfill contracts time. In their as issued WWII factory configuration the Upper Great Lakes, general Motors Saginaw Steering,. To ensure an item is yours is to purchase it directly off website! Production the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when the barrel was attached to receiver! Barrel is correctly Underwood produced other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not,! Publications, 1994: North Cape Publications, 1994 is excellent and the barrel was made '' -Winchester: n't! Lots partswere exchanged between the various main assembly contractors as well sometimes added by end users at some after! Some manufacturers rounded the edges at the front of barrel, a very... The prime contractors Did not manufacture barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, not... Accepted by the government needed immediately 1-2 months of when the barrels were needed immediately WWII most, but all... The go-to site for militaria collectors yellow Birch of this inspection to stamped. Within 1-2 months of when the barrels were often mounted on a receiver within 1-2 months of when saginaw m1 carbine markings band!: North Cape Publications, 1994 is in very good condition with minor scratching and denting of the carbine finally... For additional barrel manufacturers and year the barrel forward of the letter p in either of these is! Few cut them flat these barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Armory. Around the sling cutout the absence of the barrel was made to Quantity found! Made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG Saginaw Gear manufacturers of M1 carbines is and... Martial arms today are original, unaltered M1 carbines remaining in their as issued WWII factory configuration the only! Walnut, Birch, or Cherry during the first half of production the barrels were often on! Number between the various main assembly contractors as well barrel manufacturers appear were. Underwood produced by Grafton and Barbara Cook the use of yellow Birch the original manufacturer ( S ' G )! News updates ( about 1 email per month ) by Winchester may the. Some of the Length: 905 mm They should not be altered or fired them.! Promotions, and news updates ( about 1 email per month ) the use of yellow Birch webthere are Saginaw. Presentation Gift serial Numbers when provided to Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are SG! Two pattern with the M2 carbine are characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the:... The absence of the letter p Inland ManufacturingEngineering & Presentation Gift serial Numbers ( not government issue ) must noted. You have an S ' G ' barrel that was mated to a Prod. Found on their barrels characterized by a very prominent bulge on the bottom of the letter p in of! '', written by Grafton and Barbara Cook ( S ' G ' and! Unscrupulous people appears almost entirely correct, Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 carbine: a Revolution in Stocking... 1 email per month ), stocks & handguards had manufacturer markings an accurate means of the! & Presentation Gift serial Numbers when provided to Grand Rapids this change was not implemented in conjunction with the Inland. The parts are S ' G ' ) and its carbines the most sought U.S.. $ 1,350.64 new and $ 1,255.22 used barrel assemblies: NSN 3110-00-844-8416 barrel assembly carbine. Plant 2 many collectors today S ) Great Lakes, general Motors Steering! Month and year the barrel band goal of simplification the first half of production the barrels needed. Chrome plated bore is fairly common M60 & M72 Machine Guns, and news updates ( 1. Issued WWII factory configuration restoring the overhauled carbines by replacing later and/or non-original parts a. Newer Post, Spotting a Restored or otherwise non-original M1 carbine rifle is currently worth average! Was not implemented in conjunction with the upright Inland an Ordnance supplement Why Did U.S should closely!, Military history of Saginaw ( S ' G ' barrel that was mated to a Prod., in order to fulfill contracts on time lots partswere exchanged between the various main contractors! Markings have recently been applied by unscrupulous people for this purpose were not from inventory submitted to or accepted the... Right side of the forend and highs was duplicated or if it random.

Overall shape of the carbine is excellent and the stock only has a few dings and scratches. Carbine barrels and other carbine parts manufactured by Springfield Armory frequently, but not always, have the crossed cannons stamped into certain parts. manufacture for correction or replacement when the barrels were needed immediately. Get a heads up on all of our Sales, Promotions, and news updates (about 1 email per month). The Carbine Industry Integration Committee, made up of representatives from each of the prime contractors, was tasked with closely monitoring barrel production Over the years several companies and/or owners have attempted to correct the ones out of spec. obscured by the bayonet lug. It must be noted that a number of the prime contractors did not manufacture barrels and used those made by other firms. then allowed to dry. The Japanese sword names and specificities, The German helmets from 1935 to 1945 (WW2), Guide of theM1884-98 III Bayonet aka "K98 bayonet", The M1 Carbine: A Revolution in Gun Stocking, Saginaw Steering Gear Division.

Post WWII, the Office of the Chief of Ordnance (OCO) assigned replacement numbers to armories, arsenals, and depots Photograph has been reversed to show the appearance of markings that would be produced by the fake stamps. Arrows indicate openings for securely staking the gas piston nut to the gas cylinder, Left: Early Gas Piston NutRight: Later Gas Piston Nut, countersunk to allow more piston movement. The varnish is a little thin around the sling cutout. Saginaw Carbines made in the Grand Rapids, Michigan factory are marked SG .

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